View Full Version : Engine Surging

07-12-2006, 11:10 PM
Maybe someone can point me in the right direction...my engine is surging (netural and in gear)at idle and seems a little low on power right at off idle...what throws me off is the trans upshifts really hard and slowing to a stop the torque converter seems like it doesn't unlock, dragging the rpm to about 500...if I shift to netural the rpm's jump to like 1500 then settle to 750 or so...I thought it was the fuel filter...but changed it twice in the last week...seems to run ok at freeway speeds and the gauges all look nornal..not low on oil...i do have the banks ottomind installed...not sure what system to attack first...any help would be greatly appreciated...aside from this, I have never had any problens engine wise aside fron a water pump

07-12-2006, 11:50 PM
thinking about it...could it be a CPS symptom??

07-13-2006, 12:43 AM
How many miles on the current oil change?

Also possibly the ICP? :confused:

07-13-2006, 12:45 AM
Do you know anyone that has Autoenginuity software on their laptop? It's difficult to say what's up without being able to see what's going on with your engine. It could be the injectors, ICP sensor, the IPR, or something else...

If the trans is acting abnormal, then it may be the issue. How many miles are on it? Do you tow heavy with it? When was the last time you changed the trans. oil? Does the oil smell burnt or look black? Is the OD light flashing at you?

As for the CPS, it doesn't sound like you have a CPS issue. Usually, a bad CPS will cause your truck to just shut down suddenly. However, I suppose a bad CPS coul do some funky things. The only way to be sure that it's not the CPS is to swap it out for one that you know works.

07-13-2006, 07:00 AM
I have about 3500 miles on the oil change, and the truck has just shy of 77,000 on it. I don't know anyone with the Autoenginuity software...the trans had me stumped...but everything is computer controlled...am going to change the CPS....worst case is I have aspare if it doesn't work....I have no idiot lights, OD only comes on when I push the button like it should...run amsoil in the trans...bout 20k on the change....all fluids look fine....I do tow bout 11k...but haven't since Feb....just drove it back from OKlahoma empty though....I didn;t mention this in the last post though...it is intremittent...worse whenn it is hot

What is th ICP?

thanks for the help so far, trying to stay away from the dealership....

07-13-2006, 09:31 AM
ICP Sensor = Injection Control Pressure Sensor

IPR = Injection Pressure Regulator

IDM = Injector Driver Module

If your ICP sensor or the IPR or the IDM is going bad, it will affect the way your trcuk runs. However, it can start to get really expensive to just start replacing sensors/parts if you don't know that they're causing an issue. That's why it would be great to hook up autoenginuity to your truck - some trouble codes do not light the check engine light.

One easy thing you can try is pulling your chip out, and see how the truck runs without it.

Also, you may want to try posting at www.thedieselstop.com (http://www.thedieselstop.com) . A LOT of people visit that sight including a few Ford master techs. However, just be prepared for half the people that respond telling you that you need a BTS transmission.

07-13-2006, 09:50 AM
it is intremittent...worse whenn it is hot

Don't IPR o-rings do weird stuff like that when hot? Do you have trouble starting when warm?

07-13-2006, 01:24 PM
cps didnt fix the problem...could it be something as simple as the fuel filler cap? before i go diving into major components?? ran fine cold this morning but when it got hot, the problem came back...only at idle - runs fine at highway speeds.

07-13-2006, 06:12 PM
...ran fine cold this morning but when it got hot, the problem came back...only at idle - runs fine at highway speeds.

This sounds exactly like an injector related issue. If you're losing oil pressure at or near the injectors, the higher ICP's that are run when an engine is cold can allow the injectors to run normally until the truck reaches operating temperature. A bad IPR, IDM, or an ICP sensor can all contribute to such an issue. Are you seeing any unusual or different smoke from your exhaust? white smoke? lots of black smoke? etc.?

Since I've been through identical symptoms with bad injectors, my best suggestion is to put an autoengenuity on it and run an injector buzz and a cylinder contribution test. If an injector has failed you'll know. If they're all good, then you can move on to the next thing - IPR, etc.

If you can't find someone with autoengenuity software in your area, I'd be happy to meet up with you if you want to check things out.

07-13-2006, 06:50 PM
i think its bad injector o-rings because mine does the exact same thing ,exept i had it tested at a highly reputable shop and thats what they said and i have some very slight blue smoke in the morning when its cold . in the morning it runs great sounds good but when it gets to running temp it idles funny,surges from 1100 to about 1400 or so, but my trans works fine so that could be a totaly different deal not sure , but sounds to me like my same problem and i was told it was the o-rings letting oil through and softening the injectors because they are oil pressure fed making it surge .... just my 2 cents . ok maybe 5 cents by the size of this post. lol

07-14-2006, 12:15 AM
aside from a bad decision i drove it to Havasu today...put the "Blue cps" in...no change...Hotstik..If you could help that would be great..I am off to another school the 24th of july...let me know what works for you or PM me....i am back on this sunday...during the week is great, costa mesa is close... I have no abnormal smoke( some black at high boost) and pulled 20 lbs of boost, egt's are great, and have never seen trans above 185...I have the banks trans command and thought it might be the cause of the hard shifting(disconnect and isolate, bad signal??), but there is definatelt a engine issue, MPG seems to be down slightly

07-14-2006, 12:17 AM
if it is injector O-rings, do I have a problem with fuel in the oil?? will it look watered down or smell like kerosene?

07-14-2006, 12:48 AM
if it is injector O-rings, do I have a problem with fuel in the oil?? will it look watered down or smell like kerosene?

You could. It depends on what exactly has happened - which o-ring, etc. I've not had that particular issue, but It's my understanding that it's best to keep an eye on the dipstick to make sure that your oil level isn't rising. However, 77,000 is kind of early for o-ring problems, and you usually end up with some sort of smoking issue when one lets go.

Oh....we've forgotten to mention something that we should have brought up first.....have you checked your valve cover wiring harnesses? Sometimes a short occurs and the wire or the plug melts. Such an issue would definitely cause injector and/or glow plug problems.

...and PM sent

07-17-2006, 05:55 PM
Well, I met up with Mike (JetMech) this afternoon in hopes of helping him sort out his issue. Unfortunately, Autoengiuity wasn't of much help since it didn't really want to communicate with his truck. I was unable to run a buzz test or a cylinder contribution test. However, at this point I'm wondering whether or not they're even needed.

It would seem that he has some sort of electrical issue, though, it is not clear what it is. It might be a a short or a bad ground. We experienced the following issues while trying to diagnose things:

1.) Extremely slow communication between the truck and the AE software.
2.) Buzz Test would not initiate
3.) AE software would stall the truck with the engine running.

I talked to Jay at Autoenginuity, and he said that these issues were symptomatic of "packet loss" which is often caused by an electrical problem. However, this set of issues was somewhat unique.

The two items on Mike's truck that I'm not super familiar with are the Banks TransCommand and his brake controller. I do not know if these items tie into the electrical system or part of the OBDII interface/plug.

Just to be safe, we are having him disconnect his batteries for 30+ minutes and having him pull his Banks chip. Maybe doing these things might make a difference. Hopefully running the truck without the chip will yield some positive results.

If anyone has any experience installing a Bank's transcommand or if anyone has any ideas on these issues, please share your thoughts!


07-17-2006, 09:46 PM
well I disconnected the negatives for about 3 hours...I decided to not pull the chip yet as to aid in troubleshooting and not get into the issue of too many changes at once and not be able to isolate the "actual" Problem....lol, I do that alot.

So cleaned and reconnected them...took it for a quick drive, and the throttle response seems to be better and the power seems better in the midrange...gonna drive it tomorrow and get it hot and see what happens

didn't notice any obvious grounds loose...but there are a ton, so i'm going to continue looking

Can't say thanks enough to Anthony for his help and the calls he made!!!

07-22-2006, 08:12 AM
Did that do the trick?

07-22-2006, 12:08 PM
If it is an O-Ring problem, you would have oil in your fuel, not fuel in the oil. The fuel filter would be really black and the fuel in the bowl would look greyish.

My bet is the the fuel pressure regulator screen is clogged and the FPR itself needs a cleaning. Those are the symptoms of which you are describing. It is a simple, 20 minute or less fix.

08-11-2006, 06:22 PM
just got back from school and haven't driven the truck in 3 weeks...will try the screen and see what happens...where does the tranny get the signal to shift? is it only line pressure? does it use fuel pressuse some how? it seems to shift hard with little throttle input, on the gas hard seems ok...i replaced the speed sensor in the diff when hotstik helped me i had a fault code

the surging has gone away, but the weather hasn't been really hot...and that is when the problem seems to come up

08-12-2006, 10:41 PM
The trans gets its shift commands from the PCM via your Banks trans-command unit. Fuel pressure has nothing to do with shifting.

08-30-2009, 04:52 PM
Did u allready remove the chip? I had a similar issue and turned out to be the bad connection with my tuner.

09-05-2009, 08:36 AM
Hopefully you got it. I've had this same problem for acouple of years now. I've done the test's injectors, replace Icp, Ipr removed and double checked the UVCH's checked for bad ground, checked all my injector connections, sensor connections, put die electric grease in most all the connections too. The only thing I haven't done is drop my fuel tank. I have a Reg-return system on my truck and it holds excellent fuel pressure. I've removed the fuel lines at the pump and applied air pressure in both directions as well. What I do remember was when is started doing the idle surge. It was after I left it at a local shop to have the hpop changed after it developed a bad leak. It has done it ever since. Agian I'm stummped as to what or where my problem is. Sometimes is does it and sometimes it'll just stop doing it. But it is usually there. The idle goes up and down and up and down, and occaisonally it'll die. It starts right up too, and going down the road it runs great as well. It's just at idle that it acts up, in gear or in nuetral it doesn't matter, it'll just start out of no where, up and down, up and down. I'm hoping to get my truck live tuned this year at some piont, so hopefully who ever does the Live tuning will be able to help me find and fix this problem.